Life and Times Blog

Chat with Dude

Heres a Gchat I had with a homey.
Kay did a post, after I sent her this chat.

I pasted to word, did a find and repalce on the name of friend and replaced his name with Dude.

so its anon, but it happened.But i’ve edited it a bit.

10:35 PM well
its informed quite a bit by something i read about what Marx said about man being alienated from his work
when its an industrial/non-agrarian economy
its basically a thought on how
if we dont find support for our inclinations/preferences
10:36 PM which is simply put as, i think, “validation”
then we will feel lonely
and alienated
and i think i view the two words are different from one another
im not sure
im not sure about much
but this relates to what u say about
for a while i swung around to the meaning aspirations
10:37 PM but now i think im swinging back
u see
i think
that the psyche
i like what Maslow says
about hierarchy of needs
and man can only reach fulfillment
if he traverses stages
10:38 PM so the same with searching for meaning.i think we’re not all
built for wanting to contribute
in the sense of social impact.i think maybe some of us are looking for significance, not meaning.
(that just came to me)
so lets say i dont REALLY want to tutor kids to read but lets say
i do want to own sandton city
if i own sandton city
il kick out all the hawkers and people with jalopy cars
that will make me significant
and we could get semantic and say im still contributing somehow
10:40 PM but some folks ,most folks, talk about contribution
in terms of positive social outcomes
dude.: it doesnt need to be
me: and maybe what we’re really saying is that we want personal fulfiliment through some sense of significance
dude.: but one does have to have an idea for themself at least of how its a contribution.but that is the nafs.
me: contribution to what?
me: or who?
dude.: to the benefit of others (a community, a sibling, a friend,the social structure, informing a narrative of a civilization, your mother, the environment,Allah, anything other than yourself)

me: im not sure if i agree
i agree that this is where happiness wil come from, NO DOUBT..
everyone says so, everyone knows so
10:43 PM but i think that this whole thing im saying about the real desire being about achieving significance, is important in how it ties up to Maslows kind of concept
that unless and until
i can either achieve what im desiring
or perceiving myself to desire
or unless and until
i can truly sincerely purify that desire
10:44 PM then i will be unable to fully commit to achievement of contribution
10:45 PM maybe, to be cynical, in our circles , we buy into contribution like corporate aspirants buy into promotion.its the goal thats been set so we chase it,maybe, quite possibly, the real desire is self fulfilment of the desire to be of worldy consequence.
now thats important
cos if i just wana own sandton city
then spending my time trying to teach kids to read
will always still make me feel alienated from myself
so maybe i need to go and try to buy sandton city
10:46 PM and once i have bought it
then i will teach kids to read
without a sense of alienation/loneliness
or maybe
i will try and buy sandton city
and realise its empty
thus purifying myself of that desire
and so i will be able to teach kids better
dude.: part of mission and finding truth is the development of good, Allah inclined ambitions
me: ive never been a fan of folks talking about conitrbution or spirituality with zeal
me: mostly cos i have this doubt about my own sincerity.Zeal is sometimes narrow.Sometimes
but its not something u can easily force
these things must be organic,
not imposed, to be sustainable
10:48 PM dude.: naturally so. i read your thing on inner solo
its nice
10:49 PM me: now my rebuff to the piece on loneliness, was that we should not accept loneliness, and that the ppl around us, the work we do, where we live.these things help us attain to a sense of validaiton.and that valdation helps us climb up to the next level of who we can be.
its bullshit
that piece i wrote
dude.: ok
me: i had an anaolgy
that man is like a tree
there are roots
whence we come from
10:50 PM our parents
background etc
where we come from, background
which are not always easily visible
but play a critical role in who we stand as
then there are branches
and fruits,that which comes from us, which is more apparent than the roots
but ,
10:51 PM the deeper our roots
or rather
the thicker our stem
the higher we can grow
u know
u cut a trees bark
and count the number of rings
to see its age
it grows on itself
and a tree has xylem
10:52 PM which serves two functions, one is to transport water, which sustains it
and the other, is to prvde support
to give it rigidity
now, unless we find validaiton in those things closest to us, then we cannot sustain ourselves best,not have the best support for our structure
now this was a big mull about choosing a companion
as well as about work
dude.: lol
10:53 PM me: i will write a rebuff soon iA
dude.: iA
me: now
back to validation
i think its critical
i told u about UK guy
we click so well cos we have same world view
10:54 PM now sure, some folks say
u should have ppl that complement ur world view
not reflect it
that is healthy , true
but life, my life has shown me that
the sustainable stuff comes from folks who reinforce u
so the great friendships are with those who share my outlook
see, even socially, without that group that shares or validates or reinforces u
u feel lonely
10:55 PM all of us have hung with guys that are great guys
but not have the same outlook
if someone is a person that feels a sense of alienation from the world
(this is where it starts to get slippery)
then, in the long run, they will find great friendships
with others who feel that same sense of alienation
10:56 PM dude.: many of our great okes do have similar outlook i think
dude.: i agree
me: its a way of looking at the world that made us want to contribute
and that process
not the act or desire of contribution
but the billions of synapses about everything
and finding ppl with whom u find comfort
in similar cause circles
is no accident
it is not the cause or the mission in itself
that speaks to the fact that they really have great relationsips
its not the cause of contribution
that makes us like each other
10:57 PM its a few steps before that
(or is that obvious?)
that makes us like each other
so within contribution too, if I choose micro-enterprise or waqf
i’m closer, more validated to the other guy who chooses that too.
Not because of that on its own, but in the broader scheme of shared
outlooks that led us there.
If you choose journalism or tutoring, we’re close but not as close as the other
dude.: yes
its obvious
10:58 PM what u are talking about in beginning of this painful typing experience
is that of personal fulifilment
call it spiritual achievement
or self actualisation
its about finding your way home to essence
and that requires certain scaffolding to help u climb there
work and spouse being central to that big xylem cylinder
and then further out
10:59 PM books u read
social circles
( ie other stuff i cant think of)
so, i dont know if contribution
is the crux of it
some greek dude said
happiness comes from doing good things well
i buy that completely
I don’t really buy that owning sandton city thing personally
but I mentioned it as an exercise in questioning our driving motive
is it contribution or significance?
the cause doesn’t change the fact
but understanding the cause helps us perform better
11:00 PM
u know how things used to work out in olden times?
me: with arranged marriages?
there are many reasons
me: for those relationships working out
but i believe one reason
me: is that those arrangements were made on the basis of common backgrounds
dude.: a lot of this rabble is about how to be happy
screw that
just do whats right
but i get it
it has to be about how to be happy
11:02 PM esp in seeing the world from a spouse finding paradigm
me: but not JUST spouse paradigm
i read a life and times a few months ago that i sent out when i just got to london
and in it
i said two most important things in a person life
is spouse
and the work u do
11:03 PM so its both those
and yes, both those are challenges i face right now
but i want to talk about happiness in the context of lonliness and alienation
me: alienation is the term i will use to make it less mushy
dude: *censored *
1:05 PM me: fuck man
that cuts me
thats why im heistant to write a rebuff
not much galls me more to hear that
but with u saying it, i have to hink hard about it
more thinking
11:06 PM dude.: galls
nice word
11:07 PM me: il try to simplify
11:08 PM dude.: lol
me: but i think folks buying into a writing about loneliness
so eagerly
is just wrong
it just aint right man
but its a reality
we live lies
we are forced to live lives that mean we take situations that alienate us
me: but where we can
we must find those xylem strands that help us expand our base
11:11 PM now, a moslem should just say
God is that Chief Xylem strand
but i assume thats implicit, and a little oversimplifying.
all of life and the self is about God.ALL OF IT.
And strength or weakness,of the self,
or success and failure in life, that all affects
relationship with God.


February 20, 2010 - Posted by | Uncategorized


  1. The format of this post is painful for reading…

    Comment by Z | February 20, 2010 | Reply

  2. This is more of a soliloquoy
    yeah its painful didnt catch all of it so maybe i didnt get it. But I think in The Cause there are the poeple like me who love getting all dirty in the townships. The there are the people who create power on the forms of money and resources (owning sandton city for eg) etc and without them I wouldn’t be able to do what I do. There are many roleplayers, listen to that Rumi quote of the essence of what you do be what you love

    Comment by Nooj | February 21, 2010 | Reply

  3. on the Rumi, as for which causes are better or worse, ” Out beyond ideas of right and wrong, there is a field,I’ll meet you there”.
    Added to that, Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) said: Actions are judged by intentions.

    But , I wouldn’t want to be giving justification to people who go around being corrupt businessmen, or who solely pursue extravagant lifestyles, in the name of doing what they love.
    Although I’d TRY best not to judge.Who know’s how any of us will end.

    But on a more personal level, its doing what you love, guided by a framework of universal Goodness, that will lead to greatness, I mean Goodness.Maybe.

    Comment by Z | February 21, 2010 | Reply

  4. […] related to this is my Chat with Dude: […]

    Pingback by Inner Solo #2 « Life and Times Blog | March 8, 2010 | Reply

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